In my opinion, Shirley Peabody, that church is a historic piece of history and it should be kept. As that, your letter to the editor was the second time I heard about that church. The first was about the big bell that was given to the Templeton historical Society. End of story. Is the church worth restoring? Don't ask the powers that be, the majority will probably say tear it down, so Baldwinville can have a drive-through coffee shop. That is my opinion, does Baldwinville Center need a drive-through coffee shop? Ask cumbys they were there first. So, put another coffee shop right across the street, directly on Route 202. The traffic from cumbys is bad enough as it is. I don't think that coffee shop is a good idea. Besides where is the planning board and the powers that be on this issue? Find out first what the permitting authority plan to do about a permit. In layman's terms, don't try to help a horse that has already been shot.
We, Pauly’s Templeton watch, will help your cause any way we can. But look behind you to find out if things have already been done for the permitting of that new business. Keep us posted Shirley.
Now back to my questions of why the board of selectmen will not act now on my letter for an investigation, on wrong doings in Templeton-when asked at Monday night's board of selectmen meeting, why hasn't my letter for the investigation been signed? Chairman Columbus asked where is the letter? I PHC replied it's been on your desk at the selectmen's office for the past two weeks. I handed each member the board of selectmen a copy before Peter Farrell read it at 6 PM first on the agenda at that selectmen's meeting. Chris Stewart said - Pauly, I want to know more about your letter of investigation. well how much more does one need, it was read 5 min. worth at opening meeting of the board of selectmen, each member of the board of selectmen were given a copy of the letter in question what next? What part of - I PHC Sr want an investigation - doesn't the board of selectmen not understand? I believe every taxpayer in Templeton knows about the letter and we handed out 75 copies in person to the public. Selectmen Bennett knows exactly what's going on, selectmen Stewart hasn't caught up with Bennett and selectmen chair and Ms. Wilder are unduly prejudiced against me Paul H Cosentino. As for Selectman Mullins he should just get out, while the getting's good. Of course that's only my opinion and why would a selectmen read a motion from a script? Was it all planned before the meeting? Oh boy, how do I notice such action, I don't, someone in the crowd brought it to my attention. And I do remember looking at that select person reading from a script, a motion, to the board. Pretty good huh. So, on goes the situation between the board of selectmen and the real truth about certain things going on in town. Point is that in layman's terms, when one has a story well ho-hum-but when sees it with their own eyes, well you know, you can't believe your eyes all the time especially if they are wide open shut. Get it, wide open shut. Where did I see that phase before? A former recall person stop by my house Monday, first to apologize to me for the mistake of signing the recall an second to thank me for bringing out the truth about the recall. Her daughter had started reading the blog to her and now she prints it out and puts it on the kitchen table for her to read. So now the taxpayer is added to the cause and another vote for Julie. We talked for 30 to 40 min. and when she left, her and her daughter said -see you at the polls. Yes, I have heard her and daughter's name ,stop in and I'll show you if you want the truth and I won't hold you to 2 to 3 min. to speak, not like Columbus giving Julie 3 min. to speak and then stopping her 40 seconds. Yes I was sitting next to Julie Farrell and I did time her, 40 seconds and Columbus made such a fuss. Julie stopped talking and that is the way, Columbus conducts the meeting, it is so, that Columbus does not have time to listen to Julie or is it. That Julie does not talk fast enough. I mean 3 min. in layman's terms is 3 min. no matter how fast you talk, am I right? Other words to set the record straight borrow my DVD or by one and see for yourself - how those bogeyman meetings are held. And yes, you can swear, point your fingers at them and you will not be threatened by the police chief or his men at the door. Other words with the DVD you can rehearse for the next meeting. Let the people speak is just about history and we the taxpayers are a lot smarter, now our eyes are wide open "not" wide-open shut. Have you people noticed one selectmen when asked to vote, kind of stutters, the poor guy don't know whether to say yes or no or guilty "private joke" but look at the situation real close and make up your own mind. When I was about six years old my mother caught me smoking one of my fathers "squincher" and said to me you're going to get a good spanking. I said - ma can you wait until I finish smoking, hee hee hee. Is that the same as being guilty? I hope more people show up at the next selectmen's meeting. I have one important question for my old friend Mr. Mullins. If the chair will give me more than 40 seconds. But if not, I will talk real fast with my new speaking device from Americans with disabilities. Even when I stopped talking with it, it does not stop for 2 min. so hang on, my device from the Americans with disabilities and see what happens. Other words, Mr. Columbus smarten up and let the people speak. And try to give the people honest answers. Is your duty to do so and the other four selectmen should just say no comment or I don't know. Don't throw the taxpayer under the bus for asking the question, whether you like it or not. Of course this is only my opinion. I don't dear to mention other people's opinions. I promised “mom" I wouldn't swear on paper. Thanks for reading.
PS grab your friends and others to attend the next selectmen's meeting the more people that show up will prove how popular our board of selectmen is, get it?
About Dunkin Donuts in Baldwinville Center
ReplyDeleteZoming Bylaw 3.6.1. The Village (V) districts:
• Shall be comprised of the following four Villages: Templeton Center Village District; East Templeton Village District; Otter River Village District; and, Baldwinville Village District and located, as described on the zoning map available for review in the office of the Town Clerk.
3.6.4 The PLANNING BOARD may allow the following non-residential uses only upon the granting of a special permit. (i) Restaurant and Restaurant Fast-Food, but Drive-up Customer Service Facilities are prohibited.
The First Baptist Church may be bought, torn down, and Dunkin Donuts may put up a shop but NOT with a drive thru window unless the bylaw above is changed. I would think that the church should be on a historic register if it is not.
Phil Thanks for doing your home work . You just hit the nail on the head . Drive thrus for this type of use are prohibited . And just so you know ,I have already met with a representative from Dunkin Donut corporate offices and informed him this was a bylaw and not a local regulation ,therefore it can not be waived by special permit . I also informed him that this location would be very difficult, do to the problems that already exist with that intersection . As far as the church itself is concerned I do not beleave there is anything that prohibits it from being removed . I for one think that should be protected .
DeleteShirley Peabody my dear friend, Bayard would be proud of you for standing up to this ridiculous notion of replacing a 230+ year old beautiful church, with a modern commercial establishment (with or without drive through service). Bayard Peabody spent many years on the Planning Board working to create and enforce bylaws that protect this town against such a thing. We have a "Historical Commission" and a "Mass Historical Commission" listed on the town website. What do they say about this? Get to work commissioners. Don't let this happen. Planning Board....don't issue a special permit!!! History may not mean anything to some people, but, think of what future generations will have.....nothing if we take it down.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this concept "Eyes Wide Shut" all about? Could we learn more on this subject??
ReplyDelete1 town doesn't have any spare money to save this place
ReplyDelete2 the bank down the street has a drive tru does that effect anything ?
3 i see the school building committee is still going after that land with all the leans on it . it seems they have no common sense and is not looking out for the tax payers !!
Answer to #2 - A bank is not a restaurant therefore it is permitted to have a drive thru within one of the 4 Village districts in town. It has been explained to me that this bylaw was put in place to preserve to small town feeling of the villages.
DeleteI like Jeff's idea about selling 252 to DDs. It would be a good location for them. Maybe O'Brien likes donuts?
Do they have dunkin donuts in jail? On page 70 of Templeton by-law book of 2010, states definition of drive-up as customer service facility: fast food reastaurant, bank, retail, commercial or service use which allows customers to access sales or service directly from a motor vehicle or where the customer drives a motor vehicle onto the premises and to a window or mechanical device through or by which the customer is serviced without exiting the vehicle. Sounds like a bank window or tube to me. Does not seem to matter if it is food or cash, no drive-ups period.
DeleteJust so we clear, page 70 of town by-law book says drive-up is customer services facility; fast food restaurant, BANK, retail, commercial or service use which allows customers to access sales or services directly from a motor vehicle or where the customer drives a motor vehicle onto the premises and to a window or mechanical device (bank tube) or by which the customer is serviced without exiting the vehicle. Bank mac Ds dunkin, don't seem to matter, no drive-ups so it looks like it was explained to Phil wrong. just cause someone does not want dunkkin cutting into their local coffee shop with out a drive thru does not mean you can allow a bank. You either allow drive-up or you don't
Delete1.change the by-law on drive thrus, kind of puts damper on convenience driven business from coming to Templeton.
ReplyDelete2.Offer dunkin donuts 252 baldwinville road and show them the con com approval for wetlands replication, so we put that property back on tax rolls, get some taxpayer money back and put dunkin where it belongs, close to highway.
1. Change town by-law. Kind of puts damper on convenience driven business from coming to Templeton.
ReplyDelete2. Sell Dunkin Donuts 252 Baldwinville Road, put DD where it needs to be, near the highway. Show them the con com approval for wetlands replication/movement. Put 252 back on tax rolls and get some taxpayer money back.
Great idea Jeff How do we point Dunkin Donuts in that direction
DeleteIt said in The Gardner Snooze yesterday that if the land was purchased on Baldwinville Rd. for the new school that all leans would be paid off with the purchase price. Are you saying that we are being lied to again?
ReplyDeleteI would say you are being misinformed
ReplyDeleteBank does not own it Northeast wood design still owns it he wants over 1.3 million for it!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI`m just a stupid taxpayer and want to know how can the Co Op Bank go into a purchase and sale agreement if they don`t own the land? It says in the paper, Wed 03/28/12, that the bank submitted the bid on behalf of Northeast Wood Design, who owns the land And it also states in the article all leans would be paid off with the purchace price. If we were to purchase the land what is the price tag at the present time? The paper says that officials said: they still need to negotiate the price for the land, which stands at $775,000. Now Pauly you say 1.3 million. I`m very confused at the price to buy this land.
ReplyDeleteCall the phone number that is on the sign, on the property at 223 baldwinville rd - talk to Lance Kovich the owner of Northeast wood design let him tell you that he will not work with Colonial Coop Bank or sell it for $775,000 like he told me!
Deletedon't foget, That JOKE of a Gardner Newspaper tends to side with the ones screwing Templeton, Don't believe everything you read.
ReplyDeleteamen!
ReplyDeleteto this day there is no straight answer on how much this land is going to cost .i would think that the people on the building committee has some type of education ..dam i can see the huge red flag waving stay away !!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe thing to do with that church building is to have the code enforcement officer contact the owners of record and to deal with the building. If it is not kept up and becomes a public safety issue which ends up costing taxpayers. Fix it up, sell it or maintain it. Maybe the historical association can do something with it as long as they do not knock on taxpayers door. It is an old wood structure which if not eventually burn and cause real damage.
ReplyDeleteFrom Jeff Bennett Just so we are clear, page 70 of Templeton by-law book, 2010, definition of drive-up is a customer service facility for fast food restaurant, bank, retail, commercial or service use which allows customers to access sales or services directly from a motor vehicle or where the customer drives a motor vehicle onto the premises and to a window or mechanical device through or by which the customer is serviced without exiting the vehicle. Hope this clears up the drive-up. We can not have rules and pick and chose when we will follow them. If you want to keep business out then taxpayers have to be ready to pick up the entire tab. Apparently someone went to a zoning hearing and made sure no one would challenge their small time coffee shop or what ever, no outside competition, no spreading out the tax base and no part time or full time jobs for anyone. So unless Athol savings bank was grandfathered, in place prior to 12/7/06 when this zoning first passed or when it was amended in 3/6/08, we have a problem.
ReplyDeleteJeff The drive up definition that you speak of is just that { a definition } you must go to the zoning table of allowable uses within the zoning district . That is where you will see what is allowed and where . example Village district restaurant allowed, excluding restaurant drive thru . The reason behind this zoning is to preserve the village districts heritage ,while at the same time encouraging mixed use and pedestrian traffic .
DeleteAthol Savings bank (and its drive thru) was certainly in place prior to 2006. Maybe someone back in 2006 did go to a zoning hearing to stop competition from coming in (I have no idea), or maybe someone thought about the quality of life the villages of Templeton. The need for a tax base should be weighed against the type of town villages we the people want. Expansion of the "Mall-ifacation of America" will continue to press at the edges of our existence unless we decide what kind of experience we want in certain areas of town. Would you want a McDonald's next to the library or a Taco Bell next to Scout's Hall? At some point the people need to decide what kind of town they want. Do you want to live near Rt. 9 in Natick or in a small town. I am all for bringing businesses into Templeton but in the right places, like the 19E project. Keep the larger chain businesses near the main highway that splits the town in two. Bring in businesses that are owner operated into the villages that give people a reason to make Templeton a destination. Have the out-of-towners get out of their cars and stay for awhile within the quaint villages that Templeton have to offer. Just my opinion, Phil
DeleteI believe a taco bell would be better next to scout hall than is what there now, an industrial gas bottle joint and two run down apartment buildings. great area for pedestrian traffic, except where you gonna go? taco bell then JK for a beer. I hear you Phil but why are they coming and where are they going in otter river? If the 19E project was so good it would be breaking ground already because developers would have the capital to build, they don't so don't hold your breath. People get off the road for a couple things, food, fuel and facilities. Walmart in gardner adding 50 thousand square feet, price chopper, four grocery stores in Gardner so does anyone think one is coming here. A bank wanted to build in Baldwinville but seems no one wanted it so it did not happen, another opportunity missed. Actually a Mac Ds next to the library would be ok, have the building look like an old colonial home, dollar coffee for seniors and some parttime jobs for highschoolers.
Deleteinfoman98 where do you get your info ? first of all E19 is still in the permitting phase,second how do you know about there ability to fund this project ? and third The bank that you speak of GFA wanted to build on a residential lot NOT in the village district where it is allowed .
DeleteA lot that at one time housed Tom pizza barn, just down the road, a car repair facility, a chiropractor office, a bank in a certain building with proper landscaping whould have been a nice fit. Maybe there is no suitable location in the village district. When you go after a public grant to help fund a project and the reason given is it will allow us to give better lease rates tells me alot about funding. If one has a large box retailer in place, you build so the tenants all lined up may not be so anymore. Of course with those very large out of touch fees that were brought forward when that project came to light early last summer, maybe that is why there is no developement in Templeton. But we will see if we have anything at 19E next year.
DeleteI am pretty sure with the definitions listed and with the wording, you may endup in court trying to forbid a restaurant from having a drive-up window and letting a bank have one, it shows how the zoning in Templeton is flawed. The heritage of the village districts was service, stores, train stations commerce Templeton center inn service stations in baldwinville East Templeton. I do not not believe you would win a court case by saying bank can have drive thru but dunkin cannot, I believe in a situation with determined deep pockets the town would loose.
ReplyDeleteJeff I dont want you to fall off the sofa on this issue ,however if you read what you just said ,you will see the actual intent of preserving the villages is to keep just that type of atmosphere within these village districts . and as far as the legal challenge that you speak of , these bylaws have been reviewed and accepted by the A.G. office .
DeleteWell as for the A.O., the division of open government and the open meeting law was just put to the challenge in federal court when the selectmen of Foxborough were made to allow the Kraft group to speak. Also why do you need to get a special permit for a vet clinic, hotel, dry cleaner but I can open a barber shop which is allowed by right according to those by-laws. So maybe I open a dunkin donut in Templeton center with no drive-up but bring your order out to your car.
Deletei understand exactly what I wrote. First question Kirk, when you go to dinner, do you go to King Philip in philipston or do you go to JK crossroad in Templeton? I know you go to Templeton general store for the round table. When someone travels from Philipston to tax free shopping at Rindge Walmart, do they stop in Baldwinville for a coffee and walk around the village to see the sights or do they go to Winchendon for coffee at Dunkin? Is Templeton a destination for sightseeing or shopping or vacation? Some people may still come for Lees hot dogs. But seriously, why have all the road blocks in the way of growth? The layout or lack of one kind of prevents any real developement in the "village" district. what is the village district in otter river, the paper mill or the "hotel" If we as a town want to stay a small village, perhaps we should eliminate some things and make others part time, selectmen office open 3 days a week, tax collector, town clerk and assessors open the same 3 days a week. Maybe we can talk dunkin into no drive-up and after they tear down the church, they build a new building in the same design as the existing church, on a smaller scale, perhaps using some of the materials from the building and incorporate a a history of the building in the form of a pictorial view of the building and a verbage of the history of what once stood there. I realize this idea may be met the same as my idea of moving the world war I and II monuments in Templeton Center over to the area in front of the historical building making a nice common "monument row" area where one could look at all the monuments, town plaques without running the gauntlet of route 2A, 101 and Baldwinville Road. A new nice flag pole properly lighted with nice landscape and walkway to encourage people to stop and look. Maybe someday Templeton will take possession of the old Temple Stewart site, put the rail spur back in. Then we can get a train station there where people can ride the train to Templeton, take a carriage to the Turtle for breakfast and then walk about Baldwinville to see the sights. Back to reality, go to dunkin for a coffee and the paper.
DeleteJeff First of all im not much of a round table kind of guy ,MISTAKEN IDENTITY. As far as my dinning is concernd I try to patronize all local establishments . thanks for your concern .Dunkin does have the option of buiding without a drive thru and that is there call . However you have to understand,I am not the one that zoned the town .The people that cared enough to come to the meetings and put there own desires forward are the ones that were leading the way for what they wanted the villages to have and not have . I for one do look at the whole picture , such as by allowing fast food drive up in the village districts . Just imagine a 20ft. tall goldin arch on the common in Templeton center where the only reminder of what Templeton used to look like is A picture on the wall Of where the Church USED TO BE !!!! I dont think so !!!! in other words be carefull what you ask for because once you open that door it may be pretty ugly on the other side . I will aggree with you with on the monuments . It is not the first I have heard of this ,however I for one do believe the idea has merits and should be explored .
DeleteOkay, I'll butt in on this. I don't remember exactly when the zoning bylaws were discussed and passed, but, I can imagine that there were only a handful of people attending the meetings because that's the way this town works. I believe I may have attended one meeting because it pertained to my property specifically, and there was a very small crowd with few questions. My opinion, bylaws are written with the intent to have leverage when a situation aims to destruct. On this one, I have to side with preservation. Jeff, your idea of mimicing the church is appealing, but, is only a facade that really doesn't hide the fact that the original building has history in this town. I don't have the answer, and the town doesn't have the money, but, a Micky Dee coffee spot is not my choice.
DeleteI understand wanting to support new business in town for additional revenue. But it can't be done at the expense of the soul of the town. I chose to live here because of the beauty that exists here. Otherwise I would have moved to Gardner. We should be supporting businesses that will not only benefit Templeton citizens, but encourage people from out of town to come here to spend their money. Let's face it...Dunkin Donuts would not be a unique business here. I can drive to 5 DDs within 10 min from my house (Rt 2A Templeton, Winchendon, Stop-n-Shop Gardner, Rt 68 Gardner, and DDs near Staples Gardner). Also, DD is in Rindge and Ashburnham. Is anyone going to come from surrounding towns to Baldwinville when they have one (or two or three) in their own town? This is why the focus should be on the Mall at Templeton where businesses can come in that don't exist within 30 miles. It would be nice to go shopping within the town limits as opposed to going to NH or Leominster 20+ mi. away.
ReplyDeleteOne other point, with the over saturation of a business like DD, when business goes down, they will close locations. Then, instead of looking at a run down historic church in Baldwinville, we may be looking at a run down new crap design building. Personally, I'd rather look at a 200+yr old building than a disposable crap empty business.
And if DD really wants to open a new location in Templeton, fine. Look at property one to two blocks out of the villages. Have them be the first to sign on at the Mall at Templeton. What makes the villages so special is the small businesses that reside there. How will the Thirsty Turtle (who serves breakfast-20% off to Town employees-right Gerry?), Baldwinville Station, Village Pizza & Pizza Barn feel when DD takes their business away? You think Country Mischief, Kitchen Garden or Crossroads will be thrilled if DDs goes in the Center? (All serve breakfast and/or lunch) Lets not have a knee jerk reaction to someone from out of town waving money in the air.
all those dunkin donuts in Gardner and in this economy they are still going with long lines in the am especially. Ya think people gonna drive to philipston (at the line) to buy a coffee? Is dunkin donust hurting JK crossroads breakfast? They came after DD after all. Knee jerk reaction, well don't have a knee jerk reaction when you get a tax increase on your home to pay for the town. Town employees won't be in for 20% off breakfast if they laid off and in the permitting process, you can have a say so on the design of the building as in a village district. There are places where they tell you what colors you can paint your home. In rindge, they like copalas on their buildings. They charge for a sign and more if it is a lighted sign. Just like in East Templeton with a new pizza place, an empty store or a business, with all those pizza places in Gardner 3 miles away. How many people in Baldwinville would like to go down and buy donuts to take home or have coffee on way to work without getting out of car in rain or cold. Maybe Templeton down size, have parttime tax collector, assessor, treasurer and open selectmen office three days a week, sell all ambulances and contract with woods and split the billing proceeds, 70/30 and contact the us postal service, ask em if they are hurtin for money, why you have three post offices in Templeton?
ReplyDeleteDid any of you win the MegaMillions? Not? Oh well, I guess we won't have any Templetonian benefactors to help with the budget. Nice debate though.
ReplyDelete