People say, I already graduated that Blinkity-Blank school? Why on earth, should I continue paying for it? What a silly statement. You didn’t pay for it when you went; your parent’s, guardians, grandparents, neighbors, and neighbors in different parts of town paid for it then. Now it is your turn to pay for this generation of students.
People say, I don’t have any children, why should I pay for that blinkity-blank school? That was a personal choice not to have children. It is still your turn to pay.
People say, my kids are all grown and gone, why should I pay for someone else’s kid’s education. That’s what public education means, the public provides the money so school age children can get a decent education.
People say, the schools do a crappy job of educating the kids, I refuse to give them another nickel.
OK, The school is doing the best it can, given the resources you’ve given it, I can think of five reasons for this:
1) The kids parents send are not ready to learn. This means they are addicted to their iPhone, iPod, Crackberry, Android, whatever, anything but settling down and paying attention. When I was a kid, school was OUR job. Teachers were next to parents in regard to respect and obedience. If you got in trouble with the teacher, you were automatically in trouble at home. When you came home you had to do your homework, either before dinner, or before bedtime. ‘No’ was not an excuse, ‘I didn’t get any’ was not an excuse. You, as the student, were expected to do your homework, study and be prepared for the following day’s classes. Homework was not an optional thing, it got assigned, it got done or there was hell to pay. Parents knew the teachers had no reason to lie. If there were two descriptions of events, the teacher’s version was correct. No ifs, no ands, no buts. <- there should be 4th reason of parents not ready to be parents.
2) The student-teacher ratio is too high. This is exacerbated (made worse) by the first reason. When I went to school, I believe class size was low 20’s, maybe 24 max. Now I think low 30’s is the norm. That is almost 50% higher than some years back. There was one year recently when it rose to 40. That is insane. What learning can occur when you pack 40 prepubescent kids in a cramped, stuffy, smelly, maybe moldy room.
3) The infrastructure is so old, decrepit, falling apart, takes a huge percentage of the budget, there isn’t enough left to attract good, solid, knowledgeable, teachers.
4) School budgets are generated from local revenue. It used to be the product of a public school system competed with the product of the same school system. The kids went to work in the same mill, the same factory, worked in the same fields. If they graduated knowing the tools they would need to use, plow, tractor, lathe, drill press, planes, hammers, saws, roofing, plumbing systems, electrical systems they were largely all set. More and more these mills and factories are gone, they either went down south, as in the 80’s or they went overseas, as in the 90’s. Now they compete with products of not only other local school systems but foreign school systems as well.
5) Parents aren’t ready to be parents. OK, this is gonna be controversial. School children, be they 5 or be they 15, lie. You did it too, so it shouldn’t come as a shock your kid does it. Kids get moody and difficult in puberty. You were too. Don’t blame the school for fracking up your child, mother nature did that and, if he or she is lucky, they’ll outgrow it. Take your kid’s toys away from them. Don’t ask them to be good, tell them to. Show them how. Set a good example. And be aware, they are going to make mistakes, same as you did…and do. If you own up to yours, there is a good chance they’ll own up to theirs. Admit when you are wrong. Make them interact with real people, not the ‘friends’ they meet on iphone or facebook or whatever the social orgy of the day is. Parenting is hard, especially if you do it right. However, it is even harder if you do it wrong. But by the time you discover that it is too late to fix it and someone else will have to. Teachers don’t exist to make your kids miserable or pick on them, they get shitty pay to prepare them to be functioning contributing members of society, and you should be helping them not making their job more difficult. The most important thing you, as parent, can do is understand your kid is growing up in a much different world than you did. The demands on them as adults will be much greater and they have to be ready.
OK, so why should you care? Because you want stuff too, potable water, electricity, safe streets and neighborhoods, toilets that flush, police, fire, a respectable retirement, and the list goes on. SO? That requires a tax base and people to perform those functions. If your town gets a reputation for being a …um…less than desirable place to live, people won’t move in, people will move out. How should I wrap this up? Success tends to follow success, failure tends to follow failure. If you, as voters, decide to not properly fund the school, well…um…I urge you to think long and hard before you decide to do that. Oh, they need more money than they did 10 years ago? Don’t you?
Oh, and then there is the whole thing of using drugs as an alternative to parenting. I wasn’t always ‘on task’ as a kid, but that was a discipline issue, not a pharmaceutical issue.
At the end of the day, voting down overrides for the school budget does two things:
1) it hurts the kids, they are LESS apt to get a good education
2) it hurts the town:
a) people will leave
b) people won't move in
1) it hurts the kids, they are LESS apt to get a good education
2) it hurts the town:
a) people will leave
b) people won't move in
This may seem counter intuitive but what this town desperately needs is a thriving and growing tax base and that you have to attract and nurture. And that requires a really good school system, which can't be done on the cheap.
Walt - I couldn't disagree more with most of what you say.
ReplyDeleteWe've spent plenty on education, with nothing tangible to see for improvements. I'm talking nationally. We have more kids in "special needs", with a whole industry dependent on kids in special needs.
Spending trends have been way way up for decades. The education industry never says it's not a catastrophe if we don't increase spending. They want more. More admin, more psychology majors (where else would they work?), more analysts, more advocates, more classroom aides, more more more.
The one thing they cut, or threaten to cut, is classroom teachers. Then they get the parents all agitated and up in arms. The parents stay this way until there kids are out of school.
Here are some numbers to consider. Total government spending,by fiscal year.
1990 2.088 Trillion Dollars, $304.9 billion on education, 14.6% of gov. spending
2000 3.239 Trillion Dollars, $542.8 billion on education, 16.7% of gov. spending
2010 5,292 Trillion Dollars, $900.7 Billion on education, 17.02% of gov. spending.
In 1960, we spent $151.3 billion on total government. $19.4 billion on education. 12.8% of total government spending was on education.
In 1950, we spent $70.3 billion on total government. $9.6 billion on education. 13.6% of total government spending was on education. Keep in mind, 1950 was before any baby boomers were in school. We had a baby dearth before the boom.
The people who got the United States to the moon, and who invented the PC and every other product that derives from the PC went to school when the US spent a LOWER percentage of total government budget on education. One other consideration, government spending was much more frugal back in 1960. So the fact that government education spending has outstripped other government spending means we're even more profligate in wasting money on education than on other government projects.
The ONE thing I agree with you on is parental influence. If parents spent time working with their children on education, we would have better results.
Many years ago, I was taking a college class at night. The class was physics. Graduate credit for her, undergrad credit to this veteran working towards his BS. It was very easy for me, which it shouldn't have been, difficult for her. My "lab partner" was a high school physics teacher. She told me that motivated students were easy to teach, that ANY school could turn out lots of scholars if students were motivated. While she was not especially skilled in science, she knew her job. Which was getting them in, conveying information, getting them to pass.
Getting back to my point, parents in Templeton have the most influence as to how many "National Merit" scholars NRSD produces. If they leave it up to the schools, the kids lose. If they advocate for more spending but are too lazy to make sure their kids learn algebra, the kids lose. I think you get my point.
Spending money is easy. We need to change our expectations as parents if our children will be able to compete in the world economy. We need to take responsibility for the education of our kids. If we go to the Town Meeting, we should be informed and engaged on all topics. We can't expect to leave after we pass the bloated school budget. Many smarter people will override that vote when it counts.
Mark - I actually believe you are making my point. We've been here for 11 years or close to it. All this time we keep hearing about a new school. Have you actually been inside these schools, especially the one by the police station? The roof has been leaking for years. I am surprised it is still considered habitable. The thesis of my argument is teachers are not overpaid, given the hours they work and what they have to deal with. I did not mean to imply higher salaries lead to better student outcomes.
ReplyDeleteBut, having said that, higher budgets DO lead to better student outcomes. Higher budgets mean higher voter interest (the inverse is true also). Higher voter interest generally means higher parental interest and, as I think everyone agrees, HIGHER PARENTAL INTEREST MEANS BETTER STUDENT OUTCOMES. Apologies for the caps, but this is the pivotal point. The issue is not with the teachers, generally, not with the status of the school, public or charter, it IS parental interest. Period.
DeleteHigher budgets don't make one bit of difference. Parents (usually) make the difference. There's not a school district that cannot deal with motivated students.
DeleteOccasionally, a bright kid will figure it out in spite of lousy parents. But usually, the kids work if it is expected.
We can do without helicopter parents, constantly advocating for their child's B to be upgraded to an A. If you want to spend money, move to Newton, where all the children are brilliant.
So, from that, I gather you like the status quo in town. Higher budgets absolutely do make a difference. I am shocked you'd even say that. In your first entry here you used numbers in the billions and percent of budget etc. All I took from that is it wasn't enough. Don't take my word for any of this. That's why I said initially read "The World is Flat", talk to the new superintendent, or the principal, talk to the new members of the school committee that actually were teaching and in administration. But, for everyone's sake, don't think for a second the world these kids are entering whether the drop out of elementary school or go on to Harvard is even remotely similar to the world you, me, or our great grandparent's entered. As for leaving....:-) What is the trajectory of the population of this town, people moving in or leaving?
DeleteYou are right about the helicopter parents, I'll add to that demands little Suzie be placed in the AP section because that's where the smart children go or that's where her best friend went. Again, the teachers aren't out to screw the kids, they get placed where they will be successful, challenged, engaged, not where their clique is. Some kids can handle AP in a given subject, some ... well, some can't. That's something else parents need to do is teach their kids to deal with disappointment.
From what I hear charter schools offer a better deal for all! In the end its about the teachers wanting to teach, not about the money they make doing it?Or the building their teaching in.I don't think the school can teach the "teachers"have to do that,not their helpers.Time to pull out the "if the overide fails list"and call its bluff.
ReplyDeleteSo who goes this time?
we spend more $$$$$ per student than any country in the world !!!! our kids place 31st in math !!!!! i don't care were these kids come from, we should at least be 29!!!! the problem is-----UNION!!!!! i just had my 50 !!!! we had "teachers" who made less than factory workers, but wanted to TEACH !!!! today, we have people who make 2 - 3times more then the average person, and work 180 days per year !!!!!! please spare me the "we have to correct papers" line !!!! it doesn't work !!!!! we had a super with one sec.,one principal, vice principal and one sec...they got the work done, and 80% of us could add !!!! we, the tax payers have been riped off for years by the " education complex"!!!!! it's time to smartin up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deleteyou haven't been paying attention, have you? It's not the unions, it's not the democrats. It's the parent's lack of commitment. Look at the top 30 on your lists, no iPhones, no Facebook, no not doing homework. Schooling IS the kids job, no goofing off. It's tough love. Today there are too many parents that want to be their child's best friend. They aren't parenting.
DeleteA great deal of the school budget is based on the requirements from the state. There are regulations for this, and for that that the school dept HAS to pay for and implement. Its not their choice. The number of Special Ed students has risen because there are more learning disabilities that are diagnosed these days. And the number of autistic kids is on the rise. No one really knows why. But there are regulations for special education that needs to be followed. There are regulations regarding technology. The school dept has to keep updating the tech-driven end of education because they have to. Technology was not as big a factor 20+ years ago. In order for our kids to compete out there in the real world, they need to know technology. They need to learn differently than you did, your parents did and your grandparents did.
ReplyDeleteThe state has recently passed a new regulation in which teachers are evaluated differently and teachers now have to evaluate their students differently. With new procedures comes training, new materials, etc....all cost money.
A lot of schools struggle to keep up and pay their bills. But most communities actually support their school systems and understand the reasons behind the budget needs. Never have I seen a community that demonizes the school dept and shows no pride for it. Walt has a lot of good points and so does Mark and many others discussing here. Eventually we all have to quit discussing and actually do something to fix what is wrong. From attending more meetings to learn more about the areas that concern you to simply making informed votes at the polls. It all helps.
Do you actually know where the US stands in education in the world? In math and science the US sits around 11th place. If you want to continue to produce the best and the brightest, then you need to fund your school depts so they can actually use the technology Gates and Jobs created and possibly make even better inventions or reach the moon once again.
And our school dept has to pay over $550k in order to send kids that want to go to Monty Tech. You want to cut that amount down? Then help figure out a new formula used to determine how much each area school dept pays or help make this school dept a place students want to stay in.
I am not a teacher. I do not work for the school or town. I do not have children. These are my views. I feel it is my duty as a tax paying citizen to pay for your kids' education. I'm not getting anything out of it except a sense of doing the right thing and with the hopes that when these kids grow up, they run this town better than the generations before them.
One more thought...do you get a bigger rush by supporting a good cause and lifting someone up or do you get a bigger rush by putting someone down & crushing them? I think a lot of you prefer the latter. There aren't many comments on the "positive" blog posts. But there are tons when someone or something is being criticized. Lets call BS when we see BS...I'm all for that...but then lets continue the conversation to find out how to correct the BS in order to move to a better way of operating.
You all can rant and rave to your hearts content and it will not change a thing. For one thing, alot of the problems in town, in general are the fact that 1. there are alot of people that can not afford to pay more in taxes. 2. there is no trust in local government. {Considering the ammount of money spent with nothing to show for it , who can blame them?}3. I don't think some people believe the school department when they say what they can or can't do without. I know a person who is well educated but could not even get a subsitute teaching job because the teachers who retire young, take all the work. I think they get a higher rate of pay. So for this person its off to get their masters. Many people are sick of the school people showing up to get what they want, then beating it out the door, when their article is done. How are their kids going to learn civic duty, when ma & dad can't even stick around. I do not think the majority of voters truly realize how broke the town really is. We are going to have to take drastic measures to try to get the town on its feet. There is no free cash, we no longer have any money in stabelization accounts. The good people who are hourly workers have got their ass kicked..And guess what, it is not their fault the town is broke. Go back and read about how much was paid for legal fees, for no reason, just stupidity, or how much money was sucked up by hair brained ideas. Oh lets buy a golf course. oh, lets pay more than it is worth, for a building on Bald.Rd., along with a loan, we have no money to pay for it with. Schools that have been neglected, no paint, no repairs. You would not look so good either. Things are tough, and the economy is not going to bet better real soon. We are, where we are, so we will do the best we can. I suggest someone start a campaign to get MSBA to caugh up more than 60%. Jeff told me he looked it up and some communities got alot more. I would like a new school, My friend Gladys was a super teacher, she loved her kids, and they knew it. You may not like what I say, but it is the truth, so deal with it. Bev.
DeleteTempleton had a chance to get hihly government paid for school and turned it down Bev. You are 100% correct, this town is severely fracked by it's own hand. Unions have nothing to do with it. Yes, it is natural to pick a scape goat, just watch fox news. Unions have nothing to do with breaking this town. The school is looking for people to be subs, the only qualification is a college degree and ability to pass a CORI.
DeleteI respect your comments & view as you see it but have you actually understood what has been happening the last approx. 10 years here? These postings are NOT just a BS session, although, if you do not know many of the unethical, morally outrageous things that have been going on in some town depts, including the school, it might seem as such to you. Pauly's dedicated work, diligent documenting of Obstruction of Justice, unfair departmental procedures, unlevel playing field between depts., irresponsible spending & decisions that are leading us toward bankruptcy & state receivership, etc. are something that is now being exposed in a more visible manner to the taxpayers & citizens of this town due to this Blog site. The local newspaper has been very biased in their reporting so people have not been getting both sides of the story for years. This Blogspot, Pauly created, is a MAJOR step to reclaiming our town from a few "rogues" who have basically run us into the ditch without giving a second thought to any of the residents who paid their salary. They have "had their way" with us & now that it is time to pay the piper there is No money left. It is NOT that people are trying to demonize the school system or the teachers. We are Not "local yokels" who are stupid. I think most of us understand how the world is going & what we need to do to be competitive in the global market but it is a much bigger problem than just that the voters don't want something here. They don't have any money either!! I believe the majority of residents would love to build a new school in a heartbeat & get all the latest technology that goes with today's necessities to staying current, however, Who is going to pay for all of this?? Yes, you can get some Federal & State (noose around your neck) Grants but that doesn't cover all of it & those grants are drying up because No one, including govt agencies, have the money to dole out the same as within years past before the economy took a nose dive & tanked! And by the way, we have been trying to correct things for a LONG time here. Do you have any suggestions on how we fix this? Do you have any way to get the AG's office to look at Pauly's complaints? Can you help with getting funding for the school? Do you understand what Julie Farrell has been up against (for us) for years? Do you know anything about the "let the people speak" or recall groups & what they did to just get their way? Maybe you do & I am not trying to offend you but, am just wondering because by your blog, it doesn't sound like you really are aware of all these issues & the great efforts many have gone to to try to correct the very things you mentioned. We are WAY MORE than just a BS spot. Yes, you may occasionally hear an "off-color" comment possibly but, you have to realize that many of us are at the end of our rope in our attempts to get some justice for the mess that a few people put us in. I thank Pauly everyday for getting the word out. We were all in the dark for too long. That is why those few that have been mentioned numerous times, got away with so much corruption to the point of nearing us to full devastation & destruction. We are doing our best but haven't got a magic wand. I sure wish we did!! It seems like that is what we need because all those "authorities" Pauly has turned to for help have not listened or addressed any of the things he has contacted them about. And it is not because they don't have merit. They all do but, who is "in bed" with whom on those levels, that no one has investigated yet?? Makes one wonder?? These are all my thoughts & opinions. It's great to read everyone else's input.
ReplyDeleteIsteach, I think maybe my intensions didn't come through as I thought. I'm 100% in support of Pauly and what he's doing here. I started reading the first week of the blog. I support Julie past, present and future as well as Jeff and new advisory board...all of it. I love your comments , too. I'm all for getting the info out in the open and shining a light on all the wrong doing. But, I'm also for not simply debating which dept is better or worthy over and over but rather discuss solutions to the problems. That's the intension. With so much harrassment and bullying in the atmosphere for so long, its important to promote cooperation, between town employees, between citizens, between everyone. I don't like people putting down teachers. Much like I don't like putting someone down that served in the military. Anyone that works for a public entity should be shown a level of respect. They are all not saints, for sure. Its the lumping of everyone in one group and stating they're bad. I wouldn't say "the BOS is awful" because it isn't true, only a couple are. We've definitely exposed a lot of corruption and wrong doing of the ones who had their best interest in mind. What's the next step after every bad apple has been tossed? We need to rebuild and begin to repair the damage. New BOS, new Advisory board, new Personnel board. All places to begin. My suggestion is to start submitting ideas to do things better to these boards.
DeleteTempleton is a wonderful town with such great characters. What has happened here in the past 6 months has been crazy. But so many good things have come from it, too. We're all communicating. Pauly and so many others without a voice are being heard. We're coming together in super tough times to support and protect one another. The efforts of the C4T is inspiring! Those are all the points I'm talking about when I spoke of positive comments. Perhaps I'm wrong and these discussions should go back and forth for a while. At least its being discussed where there was none before. I apologize if I offended. My intension was misunderstood.
Isteach, you said what I tried to say, in more diplomatic terms. What has been done to our town will take a good ten years to fix. This is no lie. You younger people,these are the problems we have as a town, and as the group Citizens 4 Templeton, we welcome your support. Every department has been hurt, with the exception of the light dept. They think they live in their own world. If you pay taxes, and you are going to stay in Templeton, the biggest investment you have is in your government. If this is not ok, the rest of the town follows. This is a proven fact. Please think about what we have said. It is a bitter pill to swallow, but its the truth. Bev.
DeleteThank you Anonymous for clarifying your blog for me. You just proved what I said earlier & (I was the prime example) that blogging is subject to interpretaion much of the time. I interpreted your post differently that what your full meaning was. Isn't this forum great that Pauly created!! We can banter back & forth & get so much important stuff out there so that people that aren't able to attend any selectman or town meetings & such can get a good portion of the goings on that you would Never see in the Gsnews. And thank you, Bev for your kind words & wonderful insight, as usual. I always enjoy reading what you have to say. Hope everyone had a good July 4th!!
DeleteThe school department certainly did not he;p their cause when they stacked the selectman's meeting when the new school was going to be discussed. As soon as the school discussion was over they rudely disrupted the meeting by getting up and leaving. Goes to show all they are interested in is what concerns their pay checks and nothing else in town?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure if the kids in the classrooms acted as the teachers did at the meeting they would be in trouble!
ReplyDeleteIs it time for the teachers to show their support for the broke town of Templeton and pass on any raises for their contract? Other departments are! Quote= There is no money!
I wonder if the driscol team gets it?
some people would call that extortion. Why in the hell should teachers pass on any raises they are entitled to??? Prices at Walmart go up for them as well.The took a pay hit in the last contract.
ReplyDeleteThis town did not break itself, it had help.
The teachers are being scape goated and simple. However, the problem with little Suzie and little Johnny isn't the fault of the teachers, it's the fault of the parents. But by this major effort to punish the teachers all that gets accomplished is hurting the kids and the town.
Part of the problem that I see, is that whatever the "other side " does splits us so we argue/fight against each other. I am a teacher. My kids have graduated. I want a new elementary school. I want a new elementary school that will NOT push other people into homelessness. Teachers are NOT the problem. Students are NOT the problem. Parents are NOT the problem. Do not let people pit each other against each other.
ReplyDeleteTogether, we can figure out a way to build an new elementary school. We need everyone...working together. There is more than enough blame to go around. Let's try to figure out our common ground and build from there.
I have tried every which way to get the voters of Templeton to vote for improvements at Templeton Center...to fix the roof, to fix the soffits.. to fix the windows. Nothing would pass. The elementary schools are town of Templeton's responsibility.
Trust in local officials needs to be established before taxpayers will vote for an override or support the schools. It takes time to build that trust. Let's figure out a way to help each other, town and school. We have identified the problem, let's work toward a solution.